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Old 01-04-2019, 07:08 PM   #1
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Economy OK, fine. I'll just take mine as Dividends and you can GFY!

70% income tax just because I know how to do my job right, love to offer employment and earning opportunity to young people, and because you're an entitled liberal elitist? Fuck Off Miss Cortez! Fuck off indeed!!!

Me and everybody else who worked their asses off to build a business are going to take 90% of our income as dividends instead, and then how are you going to tax "earnings"?

What pretty fool this little Fembot Musolini is!

http://www.nationalreview.com/news/...reen-new-deal/
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egotripp
70% income tax just because I know how to do my job right, love to offer employment and earning opportunity to young people, and because you're an entitled liberal elitist? Fuck Off Miss Cortez! Fuck off indeed!!!

Me and everybody else who worked their asses off to build a business are going to take 90% of our income as dividends instead, and then how are you going to tax "earnings"?

What pretty fool this little Fembot Musolini is!

http://www.nationalreview.com/news/...reen-new-deal/
I would say she is the dumbest person ever, but a bunch of people voted for her, so, they get that distinction
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“Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:38 PM   #3
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"Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman"

(The Beatles wrote this after getting hit with a 95% tax bracket. Than 3/4 of them left England, so they didn't have to give all of there money to pay for lazy people.)
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:00 PM   #4
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What you don't understand is that 70% income tax is not 70% of all money the rich make. It's 70% of their net income. The 70% tax means they can still take 300 times more deductions than the poor are entitled to, and still have to pay a few thousand dollars in taxes.

Your asshole-in-chief, for example, admitted in 2017 to making 528 million dollars, and paid zero in taxes.

And this is nothing new. When I was 19, I worked for the Infernal Revenue. My job was to look up tax returns and send copies to the departments requesting them. I earned $7500 per year, and of that, I paid $1200 in taxes.

One day, I got a request for a man's income tax returns. While printing them, I noticed that he earned about two million dollars in the requested tax year, and paid $500 in taxes. Five. Hundred. Dollars. With a 70% tax, this guy might have paid five thousand instead of $500. Still not his fair share, but better.


Even you guys should be intelligent enough to understand that a consistent flat tax would generate more revenue by taxing all people equally. A middle-class worker making $52,800 per year would pay $5,280 in taxes. And Donald Trump would pay $52,800,000 instead of nothing.

But every time the notion of a flat tax comes up, rich people put tthe kibosh on it. Why do you think that is?
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:08 PM   #5
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Their fair share.
Who defines fair? Obviously not Miss Cortez.
A flat rate across the board is fair. Then everyone pays the same proportion from their earnings.
Elimination of all the sweetheart deals that makes income exempt from tax would also be fair. These tend to be put in to avoid that 70% tax type of thing.

Did you notice what she wants to spend the money on? Clean green energy, because wind power and solar power just aren't economic at the current stage of their development and need someone else to subsidise them.

Quote:
it means that as you climb up this ladder, you should be contributing more,” she said.

Climbing the ladder means you are already contributing more, both in paying increased taxes, even at the current rates, and the contribution that you're making to society as a whole. You don't climb the ladder unless you're demonstrating that you're making a difference and paying your way.
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garison808
What you don't understand is that 70% income tax is not 70% of all money the rich make. It's 70% of their net income. The 70% tax means they can still take 300 times more deductions than the poor are entitled to, and still have to pay a few thousand dollars in taxes.

Your asshole-in-chief, for example, admitted in 2017 to making 528 million dollars, and paid zero in taxes.
Also, she's proposing a 70% marginal tax rate. That means paying nothing extra for the first million, but after that you only get to keep ten times my mother's annual salary for each additional million you earn.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garison808
What you don't understand is that 70% income tax is not 70% of all money the rich make. It's 70% of their net income. The 70% tax means they can still take 300 times more deductions than the poor are entitled to, and still have to pay a few thousand dollars in taxes.

Your asshole-in-chief, for example, admitted in 2017 to making 528 million dollars, and paid zero in taxes.

And this is nothing new. When I was 19, I worked for the Infernal Revenue. My job was to look up tax returns and send copies to the departments requesting them. I earned $7500 per year, and of that, I paid $1200 in taxes.

One day, I got a request for a man's income tax returns. While printing them, I noticed that he earned about two million dollars in the requested tax year, and paid $500 in taxes. Five. Hundred. Dollars. With a 70% tax, this guy might have paid five thousand instead of $500. Still not his fair share, but better.


Even you guys should be intelligent enough to understand that a consistent flat tax would generate more revenue by taxing all people equally. A middle-class worker making $52,800 per year would pay $5,280 in taxes. And Donald Trump would pay $52,800,000 instead of nothing.

But every time the notion of a flat tax comes up, rich people put tthe kibosh on it. Why do you think that is?

I have also heard a large number of Democrats also grip about the idea of a Flat tax, because "it does not punished the Rich", yes that is a quote from a Democrats I went to college with back in I was 19. In truth neither side wants a flat tax, because it does not for fill the goals of their party.

You might want to take a long look at the "rich" of American, the vast majority of them are democrats. Start in Hollywood and see all the "special dedications" they take to avoid paying those taxes, Michael Moore says they want to pay.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:31 PM   #8
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it means that as you climb up this ladder, you should be contributing more,” she said.


Well then lest ask her the most important question.

First: The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported a median personal income of $865 weekly for all full-time workers in 2017. The U.S Bureau of the Census has the annual median personal income at $31,099 in 2016.

Next: The salary for most members of the U.S. House of Representatives is $174,000 per year, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Is she willing to donate every she makes above the Average wage in the U.S. to charity (real charities not the DNC), and live on the same average wage American get before taxes?
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:41 PM   #9
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a 10% flat tax will not yield the same taxes to the government and benefits the rich and hurts the poor considerably more

in 2014 $9.71 trillion dollars earned yielded $1.37 trillion in taxes that is 14.1%
Quote:
The share of income earned by the top 1 percent of taxpayers rose to 20.6 percent in 2014. Their share of federal individual income taxes also rose, to 39.5 percent.

In 2014, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.3 percent of all individual income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.7 percent.

The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent).

The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 27.1 percent individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.5 percent).

http://taxfoundation.org/summary-la...a-2016-update/

EDIT:
2019 tax brackets
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“Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”

Last edited by SilentBob : 01-04-2019 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 01-04-2019, 11:47 PM   #10
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Problems with a flat tax:
1. Assuming you keep the same budget and just change the tax code to "everybody pays <something> per year", <something> is either about 25-30%, or $30-40K, which is clearly untenable for about a third of American households.
2. Alternatively, you can reduce <something> to a more affordable level, but that also means slashing government spending until the Army can barely afford to issue squirt guns to its soldiers.
3. Very well then, you say, <something> is 30% of their income over $30K/year. Congratulations, you just invented tax brackets and marginal taxation.
4. Go back to 25% flat tax, but include a prebate to take away some of the pain. This is not a bad idea, the regressive structure of sales taxes aside, but it's only viable as long as the prebate lasts and conservatives are willing to keep paying those welfare checks. Which is to say, about a week.
5. Go back to progressive marginal taxation, as in #3, and just flatten the definition of "taxable income" to remove most of the existing tax expenditures. Probably the best flat tax available, but asking people to give up their mortgage interest deduction is politically non-viable.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:03 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Problems with a flat tax:
1. Assuming you keep the same budget and just change the tax code to "everybody pays <something> per year", <something> is either about 25-30%, or $30-40K, which is clearly untenable for about a third of American households.
2. Alternatively, you can reduce <something> to a more affordable level, but that also means slashing government spending until the Army can barely afford to issue squirt guns to its soldiers.
3. Very well then, you say, <something> is 30% of their income over $30K/year. Congratulations, you just invented tax brackets and marginal taxation.
4. Go back to 25% flat tax, but include a prebate to take away some of the pain. This is not a bad idea, the regressive structure of sales taxes aside, but it's only viable as long as the prebate lasts and conservatives are willing to keep paying those welfare checks. Which is to say, about a week.
5. Go back to progressive marginal taxation, as in #3, and just flatten the definition of "taxable income" to remove most of the existing tax expenditures. Probably the best flat tax available, but asking people to give up their mortgage interest deduction is politically non-viable.


a 25% tax rate would crush low income people

if someone makes 15,000 their current tax is ~$1600 or about 10.7%
that same person would now pay $3750 erasing $2150 from their working capital.

a person making 1,000,000 currently pays ~$331,250 that would drop to $250,000
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“Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:05 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by garison808
But every time the notion of a flat tax comes up, rich people put tthe kibosh on it. Why do you think that is?
its not the rich people that quash it it is the smart people
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Originally Posted by George Carlin
“Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech.”
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:30 AM   #13
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Everyone agrees that tax is necessary.
They just don't agree that they should be the ones paying it.

You want savings? Have business types appointed to government departments with instruction to make them cost effective. Stop the proliferation of red tape which is designed to increase bureaucratic power. Do a regular check on government departments to a) see if they're doing the job they were set up to do and b) determine if that department actually required.

An example would be the US Federal Law Enforcement Agencies.

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives‎
Bureau of Diplomatic Security‎
Drug Enforcement Administration‎
Federal Bureau of Investigation‎
Federal police academies in the United States‎
United States Department of Homeland Security‎
United States Marshals Service‎
Military police of the United States‎
United States Secret Service‎
United States Coast Guard‎
Bureau of Diplomatic Security
Bureau of Indian Affairs Police
Bureau of Industry and Security
Bureau of Land Management Office of Law Enforcement and Security
Defense Logistics Agency Police
Department of Defense police
Department of the Army Civilian Police
Federal Air Marshal Service
United States Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement
U.S. Forest Service Law Enforcement & Investigations
Fort Irwin Police Department
United States Government Printing Office Police
Hoover Dam Police
National Drug Intelligence Center
National Gang Intelligence Center
National Institutes of Health Police
National Security Agency Protective Services
National Zoological Park Police
United States Naval Academy Police Department
Office of Criminal Investigations
Office of Export Enforcement
Pentagon Force Protection Agency
United States Pentagon Police
Smithsonian Police
Supreme Court Police
United States Air Force Office of Special Investigations
United States Forest Service
United States Department of Veterans Affairs Police

Even conceding that all those law enforcement agencies are required, should they be separate organisations, each with their own bureaucracy?
Surely rolling them into a few departments would be a massive savings on the public purse. The only real problem is that it would slash the bureaucratic budget required and the Bureaucrats would fight tooth and nail to resist.

Maybe the answer isn't charging more tax or changing the tax structure.
Maybe it's a case of telling the government to live within its means.
If you aint got the money, don't spend it.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:26 AM   #14
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Two tangential points:
1. The Hoover Dam police no longer exist, having been closed October before last and their duties taken over by the NPS. There are probably a couple other agencies on your list that also no longer exist.
2. I've heard an argument that this fragmentation, and the resulting specialization in applicants, is part of why America's law enforcement is so fucked up. People join the Secret Service because they want to protect the President, or the NPS Rangers because they want to work in nature, or ICE because they really like kicking brown people out of the country.

The problem with your argument is that it's incorrectly cutting across concerns. FWS police aren't just Yet Another Law Enforcement Agency, they're the law enforcement arm of the Fish and Wildlife Service, serving FWS needs. Might as well say that every corporation in the country should consolidate their HR/security departments.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:48 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by darthbob88
Two tangential points:

1. The Hoover Dam police no longer exist, having been closed October before last and their duties taken over by the NPS. There are probably a couple other agencies on your list that also no longer exist.
Quite possibly others have been closed. It's also possible that others have been opened. No matter how you look at it, too many departments duplicating work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
2. I've heard an argument that this fragmentation, and the resulting specialization in applicants, is part of why America's law enforcement is so fucked up. People join the Secret Service because they want to protect the President, or the NPS Rangers because they want to work in nature, or ICE because they really like kicking brown people out of the country.

The problem with your argument is that it's incorrectly cutting across concerns. FWS police aren't just Yet Another Law Enforcement Agency, they're the law enforcement arm of the Fish and Wildlife Service, serving FWS needs. Might as well say that every corporation in the country should consolidate their HR/security departments.
That is purely an organisational issue. Fold them into the FBI and they should be able to provide the same service with less bureaucratic overhead. It is, however, the sort of excuse that a bureaucrat would raise. "We're special so an exemption must apply to us."

I've seen it before when areas were consolidating. It's surprising how well the consolidation go, even when all those 'I'm special' arguments are ignored. I actually replaced one of those 'I'm special' groups with a computer program that did the same work a damn sight faster, and did it overnight.

Might I point out that there are some departments that have been moved out of corporations into specialised companies.
Freight handling, payrolls, legal, and printing are some examples. The specialised companies can provide the same service a lot cheaper as they save on overheads.
Also, a lot of companies also hire external HR and Security people instead of having their own staff.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:17 AM   #16
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Problems with a flat tax:
1. Assuming you keep the same budget and just change the tax code to "everybody pays <something> per year", <something> is either about 25-30%, or $30-40K, which is clearly untenable for about a third of American households.
2. Alternatively, you can reduce <something> to a more affordable level, but that also means slashing government spending until the Army can barely afford to issue squirt guns to its soldiers.
3. Very well then, you say, <something> is 30% of their income over $30K/year. Congratulations, you just invented tax brackets and marginal taxation.
4. Go back to 25% flat tax, but include a prebate to take away some of the pain. This is not a bad idea, the regressive structure of sales taxes aside, but it's only viable as long as the prebate lasts and conservatives are willing to keep paying those welfare checks. Which is to say, about a week.
5. Go back to progressive marginal taxation, as in #3, and just flatten the definition of "taxable income" to remove most of the existing tax expenditures. Probably the best flat tax available, but asking people to give up their mortgage interest deduction is politically non-viable.

The Prebate idea was more associated with the "fair tax" then with a flat tax. The flat tax could be implements with a minimin amount threshold. If you make under a certain amount, or the first such amount you make it tax free, you started with a 14% or what ever taxes after that point. For example, i the threshold is set a 25K, and you make 35K, you only pay $2500 in taxes if the rate was 25%, less if it is lower. If you make 1M, you pay the percentage on a earning of $9,975,000.

It is both simple to calculate, and easy to work worth, since we know part of a year each pay period covers, we can calculate the threshold for the same time, and only tax what you make above that amount on that check! And come April, you could to your Federal, State, and local taxes on a single sheet of paper. Even better, it could be entirely administered by the individual states, who then distribute the tax revenue to the Feds and Local governments. Thus ending one of the largest and most complete aspect of our government.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:40 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by iron_warmonger
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
Problems with a flat tax:
1. Assuming you keep the same budget and just change the tax code to "everybody pays <something> per year", <something> is either about 25-30%, or $30-40K, which is clearly untenable for about a third of American households.
2. Alternatively, you can reduce <something> to a more affordable level, but that also means slashing government spending until the Army can barely afford to issue squirt guns to its soldiers.
3. Very well then, you say, <something> is 30% of their income over $30K/year. Congratulations, you just invented tax brackets and marginal taxation.
4. Go back to 25% flat tax, but include a prebate to take away some of the pain. This is not a bad idea, the regressive structure of sales taxes aside, but it's only viable as long as the prebate lasts and conservatives are willing to keep paying those welfare checks. Which is to say, about a week.
5. Go back to progressive marginal taxation, as in #3, and just flatten the definition of "taxable income" to remove most of the existing tax expenditures. Probably the best flat tax available, but asking people to give up their mortgage interest deduction is politically non-viable.

The Prebate idea was more associated with the "fair tax" then with a flat tax.
You mean the fair tax I linked to in that post?
Quote:
The flat tax could be implements with a minimin amount threshold. If you make under a certain amount, or the first such amount you make it tax free, you started with a 14% or what ever taxes after that point. For example, i the threshold is set a 25K, and you make 35K, you only pay $2500 in taxes if the rate was 25%, less if it is lower. If you make 1M, you pay the percentage on a earning of $9,975,000.

It is both simple to calculate, and easy to work worth, since we know part of a year each pay period covers, we can calculate the threshold for the same time, and only tax what you make above that amount on that check! And come April, you could to your Federal, State, and local taxes on a single sheet of paper. Even better, it could be entirely administered by the individual states, who then distribute the tax revenue to the Feds and Local governments. Thus ending one of the largest and most complete aspect of our government.
That sounds like either option 5 from my list, or the way things are right now, depending on how much you thought this through and whether you paid any attention at all to "define income".
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthbob88
2. I've heard an argument that this fragmentation, and the resulting specialization in applicants, is part of why America's law enforcement is so fucked up. People join the Secret Service because they want to protect the President, or the NPS Rangers because they want to work in nature, or ICE because they really like kicking brown people out of the country.

The problem with your argument is that it's incorrectly cutting across concerns. FWS police aren't just Yet Another Law Enforcement Agency, they're the law enforcement arm of the Fish and Wildlife Service, serving FWS needs. Might as well say that every corporation in the country should consolidate their HR/security departments.
That is purely an organisational issue. Fold them into the FBI and they should be able to provide the same service with less bureaucratic overhead. It is, however, the sort of excuse that a bureaucrat would raise. "We're special so an exemption must apply to us."
Actually, what I was trying to refer to was vertical integration, the fact that FWS police's duties are closely connected to FWS and would therefore be better met by an in-house agency than by outsourcing to a more general agency. Additionally, outsourcing would mean replacing the overhead of FWS police with the overhead of integrating the FBI into the FWS bureaucracy. This would almost certainly not be an improvement.
Quote:
Might I point out that there are some departments that have been moved out of corporations into specialised companies.
Freight handling, payrolls, legal, and printing are some examples. The specialised companies can provide the same service a lot cheaper as they save on overheads.
Also, a lot of companies also hire external HR and Security people instead of having their own staff.
My first job out of college relied on such an HR agency, and as a developer I would be remiss if I left out the various Stuff as a Service companies, including a few that I worked for and a few more that I have used myself. However, you're ignoring the many good reasons why some organizations do and should handle those duties in-house.

On the gripping hand, I'm pretty sure this conversation has cost me more than the FWS police.
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:21 AM   #19
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On the gripping hand, I'm pretty sure this conversation has cost me more than the FWS police.
The Mote in God's Eye - Larry Niven.
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Old 01-05-2019, 02:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
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On the gripping hand, I'm pretty sure this conversation has cost me more than the FWS police.
The Mote in God's Eye - Larry Niven.
And Jerry Pournelle, yes. Can we get back to the discussion at hand, or would you rather circlejerk over "I know that reference"?
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